Yad, dating coach and owner of Daygame.com, comes on the show to offer his views on monogamy, marriage, commitment and what I call “The Nomadic Life.” We discuss commitment to a relationship and what that means, particularly in the context of children. We also explore the origins of monogamy as a means of securely transferring private property. “Social Class” arises as a topic of discussion, both in regards to chasing “high-class” women, and with the observation that most PUA’s have working-class roots, making them natural-born hustlers. Late in the show, we discuss the tension between choices that require commitment and the impulse to lead an unfettered life; Paul makes the case that commitments (just like promises) matter most when we least want to keep them.

  • Luke

    Bravo! Great discussion, very relevant.

  • Luke

    Just listened to podcasts 9, 10, and 11 and I must say, very well done and just awesome insight from many different perspectives. As the “nice-guy” type that struggled with meeting and dating women I found to be “hot” for all of my 20’s, until reading Paul’s book and then performing very well for a couple of years before settling down (now married with a 3 year old girl and one more on the way), I find everything being discussed very, very relevant to my life’s journey.

    This podcast is like Men’s Health for my psyche… Thanks for the content and keep the podcasts coming!

    • Thanks, Luke. It’s a lot of fun, because Pete and I have a forum for discussing our own challenges, and how we navigate life. There’s not a lot out there on this stuff, but I know men are curious how other men think about life, relationships, career, etc. Thanks for your support!

    • peter

      Cheers Luke

      “This podcast is like Men’s Health for my psyche…”

      I think Paul will particularly like that description.

      Congrats on married and building a family. We hope your wife is well.

      Keep listening mate

  • Caleb

    Great podcast guys I’ve really been enjoying it. Keep up the good work!

    • peter

      Thanks Caleb –
      Hopefully we will keep you listening…

  • Onder

    I think Yad makes a compelling point with regards to marriage and feelings and have thought about it myself for months, which has directly influenced my decision whether to get married or not.

    When you look at marriage, it is in essence built from a poor structure of feelings and emotion (2 couples who love each other), which aren’t meant to be stable and are often times fleeting.

    There are a few Evolutionary Psychology books that go into this in detail as to why this is so. But in a nutshell, The emotion of Love (Oxytocin) only seems to last for around 6/7 years, which is generally the length of time needed before the child is old enough to take care of themselves. Meaning it’s in nature’s interest to bond a couple together long enough in order to safely raise a child and succeed in passing on their genes.

    This explains the whole cultural theory of the “7 year Itch” where couples start to question their commitment.

    My 2nd point is, if we are truly monogamous, then why do we even need vows to officially commit to each other? It’s clear that it doesn’t guarantee anything due to either party filing for divorce.

    I’ve also yet to see a single couple who i’ve met in my personal life where I can honestly say that they were together due to love. It was mainly for other reasons like comfort, kids or familiarity/routine. They were all generally bored and just going through the motions of marriage.

    Might sound negative or pessimistic, but just a few personal thoughts.

    • peter

      Hey Onder!

      Thanks for your thoughts on the subject and engaging in the debate. Your thoughts around ‘The 7 Year Inch’ are interesting. Keep listening and commenting.

      I wonder what Paul will say as he is a little closer to this topic than me?

      We both appreciate your support and I hope future episodes keep you interested!

      Cheers,

      Peter

      • Onder

        Thanks Peter.

        I’ve read up a lot on this topic so I could try and gain a better grasp of the big picture. I have quite a lot to say about it that would be too long to fit in comment form.

  • Luke

    Onder,

    After being married 4 years now, this topic is of particular importance to me. I can honestly say that I love my wife and that she loves me. Now, when I see a hot babe in yoga pants, the attraction is still there, but the bond and partnership that I’ve built with my wife, as well as, the commitment we’ve made to our children would be jeopardized if I were to act on those impulses or vice versa for that matter. So, like Paul and Peter were talking about, there is always a tradeoff, sacrifice something to earn a ‘payoff’ later on.

    On that note, marriage is kind of the ultimate ‘hedging’. When you’re old, who is going to be your companion, take care of you if you’re ill, share your memories… When people die, what do they wish for, more time to spend advancing their wealth, projects, agendas or more time with their loved ones? There are many different factors (socio-economics) besides just ‘love’ for why people partner up, and that’s really how I view my wife, not just a woman I’m ‘in-love’ with, but my life-partner, best friend, and equal. That’s why learning how to meet and attract women is critical in my opinion to finding a life-partner, if that’s you’re goal, maximize your exposure to females, so that you can find one that checks off most of the boxes you want selected. Yes, I’ve seen several examples where married people end up just living together, but are sick of each other 20 years into a relationship, but I’m ‘all-in’ in my relationship to make sure that isn’t the case in my future. And just because I perceive that that couple is sick of each other, how do I really know the depth of that relationship truly, as I’m only on the outside looking in…

    • Onder

      Hi Luke,

      Thank you for your input. Its really nice to hear other people’s experiences regarding the topic of marriage and commitment. I definitely can’t argue with the idea that marriage can work. It certainly can provided you get all the elements in place to make it a success.

      I guess my argument is a lot broader in that it covers many angles and unfortunately too long to include as a comment.

      But as a summary, the success at which a marriage could work can easily be measured if you understand a woman’s stage in her sexual marketability as well as the culture and society we’re currently living in.

      There’s no question that times have indeed changed with regards to how people view marriage now as opposed to how it was in the 1970’s, which I presume you’re from?

      There simply wasn’t any smart phones or Internet back then that allowed people access or abundance to choose a partner. People generally stuck with their own crowd, which made things much more stable and a lot harder to stray due to the ramifications of being exposed and shamed by your community of friends and family.

      Nowadays, it’s as simple as swiping right on Tinder or going on Plenty of Fish with no indiscretion whatsoever. So what you now have is a culture that favours instant gratification as opposed to a culture of hard work and perseverance. The qualities needed in order to sustain a healthy marriage.

      People simply no longer have the patience to sustain a marriage when you take into account the conditions above, which has become more and more clear with the rise in divorce rates; 80% of them being filed by women.

      When you couple that with female empowerment, delayed marriage and putting their career and success first. You pretty much have a lethal cocktail, because it’s positioned women in a way where they no longer need men for security, painting good men in the corner and going with PUA’s playboys for adventure thrills and sex, so long as you have the skills to take advantage of it.

      In other words, women are spending their prime years embarking on thrills and spills and delaying marriage, until their market value is no longer high enough to demand the most attractive men and start looking for providers to take care of them and cash in, in order to start having kids, and possibly divorce once they’ve scratched that itch.

      Its essentially a mine field and one that men are becoming wiser too and seeing it as a bad deal. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to get married and am sure there are good girls out there that are not like that. Just that we’re in a culture that doesn’t make it easy for the type of guys that would like to commit.

  • Luke

    Thanks for the response Onder!

    An interesting fact finding mission would be the number of sexual partners each gender experiences by generation. Also, by decade.

    • Onder

      I would suspect very low compared to how it is now. Mine is in the 60’s.
      Most girls lie about the number of men they’ve slept with.
      The previous girl I slept with admitted that her parents have no idea what she gets up to and is likely to lie when she’s ready to settle down.

  • John

    @Luke

    While it’s great that your marriage is a happy one, the difficulty is that marriages end (about half of them, in fact). Husbands and wives, feeling bored or that there may be a better opportunity elsewhere, can leave at will. Therefore it’s problematic to position marriage as a form of ‘hedging’ against loneliness as the man who is married at thirty may well be alone by sixty.

    • Luke

      John,

      The cup is either half full or half empty, by the facts 50% of them do make it! I also waited until I was 31 to get married, I think at that point, you are more self-aware of your goals, needs, and wants and it’s easier to find someone with those things in common with you. I would never marry someone that I didn’t believe in and feel confident that the love, respect, sense of value was reflected equally. I think many people marry, where the sense of equality in the relationship isn’t there and that is what leads to unhappiness. Sometimes, it takes a lot of pain and struggle to understand that and find the courage to go after it.

      Marriage is not easy, it’s hard work, but if you find the right person for you, it makes living and building a life together a great experience. I am in constant communication with my wife, we discuss everything, and I try to keep no filters on our content. I discuss with her my goals, fears, insecurities, even these topics that Paul and Peter are bringing up, regularly. I’ve always believed that communication is key to a successful relationship. No one can predict the future, but don’t let the fear of failure keep you from trying something you want to experience.

      • Onder

        There isn’t really such thing as ‘finding the right person’ Luke. There’s a reason why marriages are more likely succeed when the girl is older because she’s:

        a) Not as physically attractive as she once was in her hay day (If at all) , so doesn’t have as much options.

        b) Has a louder ticking biological clock realising no alpha guy will commit to her and desperate to settle down.

        It’s no surprise that older girls are a lot more easygoing and friendly because they can no longer afford to screw up or mess around. Unlike their younger versions where men were aplenty.

        In other words, don’t buy into the feminine agenda of ‘Women wise up when they’re older’… Completely fabricated and made up in order to cover up their hypergamy. It sounds misogynistic, but it’s the truth.

        • Luke

          Onder, there is. It’s called dating until you meet someone with whom you’re compatible with and want to build a life. In order to do that, trust and communication is imperative. It’s not all nature and it’s certainly not all nurture, but more likely than not, it’s a combination of both. Once men and women get out of their 20’s, age doesn’t matter so much. In my experience, the marriages I’ve seen work were when the couple were either close in age or the man being somewhat to quite a bit older. People go through different phases of growth along their journey, the trick is to find someone who is ready to commit and also want to grow together. Nobody has this life figured out, certainly not relationships, the proof is the fact that this podcast exists and we are discussing it right now.

  • John

    Luke,

    I’m not sure marriage is something I “want to experience”, to be honest. You say “marriage is not easy, it’s hard work,” — well, why do I want to have to work hard when I go home. I have enough of that during the day.

    J

  • Mike Hunter

    Just a quick comment about Paul’s observation that humanity has settled on the model of monogamy after trying several different types of relationship configurations over thousands of years. As a species we have never been monogamous, and we’re still not monogamous.

    Surveys show that 78% of married people have cheated on their spouse; with similar percentages of women and men cheating. Sure swingers and those in the poly community may not be monogamous, but neither are those in traditional marriages. At least swingers are honest about it.

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